Why accounting skills make you a better leader

Intro:
Hello, and welcome to The CPA Australia Podcast. Your weekly source for accounting education and career and leadership discussion.

Majorie Wong:
Hello, everyone and welcome to The CPA Australia Podcast. My name is Majorie Wong, a member of New South Wales Young Professionals Committee, and I'll be hosting today's podcast. On this podcast we will be discussing the relevance of accounting skills for professionals that can be transferable into different career paths with Priscilla Cheung, CPA, Kate Lu, CPA, and Stephen Haller.

Kate Lu is the Director of Financial Operations of Allegiance Group, a global talent management firm. Priscilla Cheung is a Co-founder of Investmentor, an investment mentorship company. Stephen Haller is Managing Director of Preformed Line Products, an engineering company for critical line hardware for energy and telecommunications.

Welcome Kate, Priscilla and Stephen. It is great to have you here.

Priscilla Cheung:
Thank you, Majorie.

Stephen Haller:
Thank you.

Kate Lu:
My pleasure Majorie.

Majorie Wong:
To kick off the sessions, can you all tell us a little bit of your career journey? Let's start with you Kate then Priscilla, and lastly, Stephen.

Kate Lu:
Yeah, absolutely. Hi, everyone, Kate. I'm a qualified accountant who's also madly, madly passionate about business intelligence and data analytics. I started my career as an accountant and about six years in, I fell in love with data and technologies and made a career move into IT space. What I'm most proud of is that I actually managed to inspire a number of accountants to follow my suit and made a career change. And I'm grateful and proud to see of them now, having built a successful career in their own domains.

Well for myself lately, I moved back into the finance function, and now heading up the commercial finance and operations of the South Asia region of Allegiance Group. Personally, I'm a working mom with a lovely toddler son and cute dog. I love reading, learning new skills and teaching and coaching during weekends. I'm very, very excited to be here today.

Majorie Wong:
Thank you. Priscilla?

Priscilla Cheung:
Well, [inaudible 00:02:45] that was background Kate and I look forward to listen to your sharing a little bit later. So as to myself, I came to Australia as a migrant 32 years ago. And I guess I managed to support myself to finish my tertiary education, get a Bachelor of Commerce degree majoring in accounting. So I guess to start with, obviously, I was quite excited to get a role with Coca-Cola Amatil as a trainee accountant. And then I actually worked really hard to work myself up to a senior commercial manager role. That's where I actually left the company that's back in 2010.

So I worked there for about 14 years. So besides, I guess, a relatively successful career background from a conventional sense, and myself and husband has been a very keen and active property investor for the last 26 years. And also 10 years ago, I transitioned from an accounting and finance background into the property industry, because of my property investment experiences, so that actually led me to change path 10 years ago. So just recently, myself and a few trusted professionals in the industry actually found the Investmentor.

So Investmentor is a property investment services and mentoring business. So we actually educate, empower, and really providing the right tool and strategy to help everyday Australian to be well, and financial security through property. So that is really a little bit of a nutshell about myself. Thank you.

Majorie Wong:
Okay, thank you so much Priscilla. What about you, Stephen?

Stephen Haller:
Thanks Majorie. Majorie, I've got an interesting background because I started a long time ago. But I started as a boilermaker. So I'm a tradesman boilermaker. And not long after finishing my trade, I got into sales. So it's been a long time in sales, but then moved into management. And I was blessed because my first management role was actually going into a business, that every month was losing more money than the month before. And so I learned very quickly how to turn that business around. And I've spent most of my career in turning businesses around.

I go into businesses and I work with people and their products and procedures to really build a profit where there previously wasn't one. I've done that nine times in the last 20 years earning more than 16 million dollars for the bottom line of those businesses, and I really enjoyed that. Along the way, I did pick up some paperwork, which was good. So got an MBA with a focus on marketing, got a masters of commerce focusing on accounting and finance, and then masters of HR and strategic organisational design development.

For the last four and a half years, I've been here at Preformed Line Products and having an absolutely ball working with some tremendous professionals from the utilities industries.

Majorie Wong:
Wow, thank you all. What a diverse and fascinating careers each of you have. Let's start with Priscilla and Kate. Both of you started in accounting field early in your career. What were the skills that you gained in your accounting roles? Maybe let's hear from Priscilla first.

Priscilla Cheung:
So I guess as I mentioned before, my immediate role when I graduated and found myself, I landed a role as a trainee accountant with Coca-Cola Amatil, that I did all the basic stuff where you do, debit, credit and band regularisation, and a whole host of basic stuff. And you do month in as well. Even sometimes you do feel that those tasks can be repetitive, and you do on a month in, month out basis.

But I found those skills actually really important, because in a business, then it really helps you to understand the numbers and because the numbers actually don't lie, but it really equips you to really understand all the basic fundamental, but then later on when you move through to your career, and becoming, when you're climbing the corporate ladders, it really helps you to make strategic decisions based on those numbers as well.

So certainly myself, with my 14 years with Coca-Cola Amatil, in the later on with my career path, and then and I basically use those numbers to re-influence a business decision. Be able to involve in that strategic decision making processes as well. Not just about, person that crunching the numbers.

Majorie Wong:
Okay, great Priscilla. Thanks for sharing. Now I really look forward to hearing from Kate. Kate, what skills have you acquired in your accounting role earlier in your career?

Kate Lu:
Yeah, I kind of agree more with Priscilla, absolutely. You actually gain a lot of skills working accounting roles. For me, I think the most surprising one and I guess the most valuable one again, was marketing. How did that happen? To me, yes, being a good accountant, you demonstrate your strong technical capabilities. Like Priscilla said, you complete your most in tax on time accurately. You write great commentaries, and being resilient, working under pressures with never ending deadlines, and then it repeats again. For me-

Majorie Wong:
That's fun.

Kate Lu:
Yeah. For me, the pivotal moment came when I started to question the meaning of my work. It feels like it was a very early mid career crisis of midlife crisis, came way too early. I asked myself, "Hey, how good are those reports if they've never been read?" Let's be honest, like how often you receive those weekly or monthly reports and they just sit in your inbox and you just for medically never managed to find time to read them.

So that's when I realised I need some marketing skills. And that doesn't mean bombarding people with more emails and mark your emails with high importance and write spelled, urgent in capital letters in the subject headings. I feel I needed to go beyond numbers and I needed to understand how each department works. I needed to be able to connect with people from all different walks of life, like Stephen.

And what do they want? I need to understand what do they want and what do they need? What do they care about, what is their definition of success? What kept them awake at night, and a financial report to me should be designed and manage it as a product that our customers are willing to buy and are willing to consume and it shouldn't be a tick the box exercise. So, yes, I want them to read my report, I want to address their concerns. And most importantly, I want them to drive actions and together we drive the business forward. It's a marketing, communication and design thinking.

Majorie Wong:
Thank you both. So Priscilla mentioned the importance of excelling in the technical skills as well as non technical skills, especially as a basic fundamentals to go forward in a corporate ladder and about strategy decisions as well. Meanwhile, Kate mentioning about how important it's in the accounting role, she actually got the marketing skills, communications and how to connect with people. So this brings to my curiosity. Both of you changed your career. What were your aspirations when you decided to have like career change into non accounting roles? Maybe, Priscilla?

Priscilla Cheung:
Sure, sure. I love to share. So I guess I touch on when I have a two minute intro that besides a relatively successful corporate career in accounting and finance, I guess it started as a hobby, my husband and myself started to become a property investor. And kind of investing in the Australian property market for the last 26 years, I guess, perhaps we both came as a migrant, and we didn't really have any social tie, and we really have to start everything from scratch. I think we realised really early on that we cannot always rely on our physical self, to be able to work and provide for ourselves. I think one of the daunting thing is that we all living longer than before. What it means is that, like even if you work till 65, when you're retired, and you still have 30, 40 years of living to do, depending on how long you can live. But then financially, your salary might stop coming in. So you got to then think about, what do you do?

So I think with that understanding and passion and we started to really use it as a vehicle to really start to build some wealth and we have a little bit of success. So I guess that's why 10 years ago, I wanted to make a radical shift from accounting and finance to join as a property mentor, property strategist, to be able to leverage my own experience to help other people to do some wealth through property investing as well.

Majorie Wong:
Okay, I see. And how with you Kate?

Kate Lu:
Very interested to hear Priscilla's perspective. And I feel like I should have known you many, many years earlier. Then I would have-

Priscilla Cheung:
We would definitely have live conversations there.

Kate Lu:
I know. Priscilla mentioned, like accounting, early years, it could be a little bit repetitive. And I think I hit the same problem like, I realised early on my physical limitations, that I choose a different avenue. I hated having to do things manually or repetitively, so that I really should have follow below. You should have started your business earlier Priscilla, it could have saved me in different way.

Priscilla Cheung:
Never too late, never too late Kate.

Kate Lu:
Never too late. I saved myself in a different way. So I started to look for ways to make my life easier to do things more efficiently. And that's when I turned to technologies. I discovered the power of Excel VBA and some other technologies such as Cognos TM1, I loved it so much. I got so proficient that I was able to automate most of my reporting work from hours to minutes and seconds. Yeah, I got so passionate about Excel back then.

I even did one of my wedding invitations in Excel. Yeah, and I think the second aspiration I had with more curiosity, my wild curiosity. I was just never satisfied with working just with the financial data. I felt I needed more. I needed more data, wants to know more internal, external data, operational data. So to help me and my customer to understand the why and to better predict the future.

So that's when I was introduced to the concept of business intelligence. That was like a first side of law. So I took a bold move to change from accounting to business intelligence back then and I was grateful that time. My manager then also took a bold move to accept an accountant into the IT space without any formal IT qualification. Yeah, that's my journey.

Majorie Wong:
That's really fascinating Kate. However, from what I remember, your current role is Director of Financial Operations. You really come full circle.

Kate Lu:
Yeah.

Majorie Wong:
Coming back on accounting, IT and now back to accounting. What is so attractive about accounting that you actually chose to go back into it again, despite you're saying like, accounting is kind of repetitive and that's why you actually moved to IT before?

Kate Lu:
Yeah, that's a very good question. I don't know whether I have a perfect answer yet. I made this choice because I wanted to make more and direct impact on the business. I felt I needed to go in to the core of the business as a key financial partner to our business in the region. It gives me that opportunity to make more impact. And to me, it's like it's adding different lenses to my collection, I hope I was adding different properties to my portfolio like Priscilla. I was adding different lend it to my collection. I had accounting lens, then IT lens and now I'm adding on a commercial finance and business operation lens.

So I can feel the synergy in all this and the love that having the ability to see the world from all different aspects.

Majorie Wong:
Okay, great. Kate and Priscilla, and thanks for the insights. Stephen, we haven't forgotten about you at all. Thank you for being patient. Stephen, you have done multiple roles in different organisations. And as you mentioned before, you started as a boilermaker, tradesman, and then move into sales and now management. After such a long and successful career, what were the key drivers for you to take further studies in accounting? Because in your introduction, aside from MBA, you also took a master of commerce in accounting and finance?

Stephen Haller:
That's right. Yeah, thank you for that. I'm probably a little different to the people on the call here in that, I didn't do well, at maths at school. In fact, I did very poorly, I was in the part of the class that made the top half possible. But after I got into business, I realised that the numbers were really important. And moved from sales, obviously sales, I understood the commercial numbers quite well, but moved from sales into management, and particularly into businesses in looking to turn businesses around.

And about 10 years ago, a little over 10 years ago, I was moving from one role to another. And if you haven't come across it, we'll put the author in the book in the notes, but there's a book called The first 90 Days by Michael Watkins. And I strongly recommend this book for anybody who's thinking about changing or anybody who's recently moved.

And early in chapter one. It's got an assessment of your potential problems or potential areas that you can be blindsided. And it asks you a number of questions, and I kind of sat there in a coffee shop and I ticked the boxes and whatnot, and I transposed it. And I understood the numbers well and I understood marketing well, and Kate talked about different lenses, and I understood the customer's lens well, and so that was good. But as I looked at finance, I found that I scored very, very poorly.

Michael Watkins in that book says that if you score very poorly, you can easily be blindsided. And I didn't want to be blindsided, I knew that if I needed to get ahead, or if I wanted to get ahead, that I need to be able to make sure that I was fully rounded, and that I wouldn't get caught out. So that was a radical thing to do, 10 to 12 years ago, looked at, how could I make sure that I never get blindsided. And at the time, I'd previously done some study with the University in New England. At the time I looked and went well, I'll go and do a master's of commerce majoring in accounting and finance. And I found that group of study with the University of New England very, very good. It certainly gave me a fully rounded understanding of the numbers.

Majorie Wong:
Very interesting. I'll make sure to check that work. So how does accounting make you a better leader in your current role?

Stephen Haller:
I've always or for the last couple of decades now, I've moved into businesses that weren't performing well, I guess from an accounting point of view, they are a turn around businesses, and having a good understanding of the numbers, having an understanding of the engine of the business, being able to speak financial speak, and also being able to speak at a level and have an understanding of what was happening both in the boardroom but also with your financial accountants was absolutely superb.

There are some weird things that's come out of the training, come out of it. But I guess, to some degree, you forget that you realise, prior to doing the qualification in Accounting and Finance, I kind of wonder what the auditors did. They come in once a year, but I didn't really understand what they did. And it gave me an opportunity to really understand what they did and how they added value. But it also gave me an appreciation of what's in the depreciation schedule.

And what does that mean and how can I use that. Or every now and again, you'd move into a business, and you'd find the financial tools that they've used to structure the business, weren't the correct tools, or at least weren't the best optimum tools. And that way, it gives you an opportunity to look back and go, okay, they're not the most optimum tools, how can we restructure this again, and make it more optimum. And I found that very, very worthwhile.

Majorie Wong:
And today, what are your proudest achievement?

Stephen Haller:
Oh, now this is going to be interesting, because my proudest achievement is actually building people and building profit. So my ethos now for a very long time is actually, if I'm going to go into a business, how do I build people and build profit? And in that order. And my proudest achievement is really in helping many, many people from a career point of view, grow through their career. So yes, I've been in businesses of 300 people, I have been businesses of eight people, businesses of five million dollars, up to 300 million dollars. But my proudest achievement really is helping people, helping young people to figure out what they want to do in their career and then do it.

Majorie Wong:
For someone as senior as you, you really set an amazing example for people to follow. And it really shows there is always a room for improvement, and a room to learn new things. And it's not only for Stephen, but also you Priscilla and Kate. So now we want to bring all of you back to our next session. Kate, Priscilla and Stephen, you have performed various roles. So I want to understand how you manage to play your accounting and finance skills throughout your careers?

Kate Lu:
Yeah, I can start. So accounting and finance skill. In my financial role, those skills are crucial. And they played a significant role when I was in my IT career. It really helped me to solve complex problems. A couple examples, like I needed the accounting and finance skills when I was building a business plan to offshore part of the IT services to overseas and many other business case to get investment on tools and projects. I remember when in case, reputation on our capabilities, the demand for our service just skyrocketed. Then to keeping our customers happy, while ensuring that I'm allocating resources effectively, to the greater good of the company. I introduced a concept of internal marketplace for different departments to bid for our resource and prioritisation. And I wouldn't be able to do those without the accounting and the finance skills that I had previously.

Majorie Wong:
Interesting.

Stephen Haller:
Kate talked earlier about the lenses that she applied to the business and I think this is a really important part whether you put a sales lens on, or a marketing lens on or a HR lens or a finance lens. And I think part of the benefit of having the knowledge and the skills in accounting and finance is you can then move between lenses, you can look at the P&L, but again, through what lens do you look at it through? The lens of finance, or do you look at it through the lens of HR?

And so I think there's some tremendous opportunity there to actually blend to some degree, different skill sets together and make a more holistic decision. Sometimes just if you are in a void, and you're looking at the numbers, it's very easy to make decisions about what to do with the business. But then, of course, when you come back in, and you look at the eyes of the people, you can look and go, well, what's the optimum solution? What's the best solution?

Majorie Wong:
I see. Do you also think the same Priscilla, with Kate and Stephen?

Priscilla Cheung:
Well, absolutely, I think I really like Stephen's analogy about looking at things that even lenses and I mean from a different angles as well. So reflect back on one of my role as a commercial manager, I actually work intimately when I was at Coca-Cola, I work intimately with a lot of key stakeholders, including people that are actually what would Coles and Woollies and even McDonald's. A lot of the time, sometimes being a salesperson, they are very much driven by volume, but they may not understand when they strike a certain deal with that. Also very important, we are actually looking at the bottom line, if you drive a certain volume, but if the deal doesn't make sense, then we may not actually be making money, and what is upon to actually keep the volume a bay.

So I guess, having that understanding and the knowledge about the numbers and the reporting through what Kate's role was doing, given us this ability about what is the right decision. So therefore, as accountants, we're not just a numbers person, we'll be able to really use those numbers and intelligence, datas, turn them into very actionable insight, to really help the basis making an informed or strategic decision, rather than just a one side decision, as well.

So we actually see, or I very much believe that these days, accountants are very, very integral part of any business. I think if you want to be successful in any business, you need to have a very good accountant actually work within your business, is really supporting that decision making processes.

Kate Lu:
And I think, I always describe ourselves as bridges. In large organisations, you have different common ends, and bottom time people just working off in their silo. So for accountants, for people who hold all this data, I think we have a responsibility to share this information and a group together to have all these perspectives together, before we make a decision for the business. As to what Stephen said, to avoid that blind side.

Stephen Haller:
I think a parallel to that, or a good example of that, is here a proof online prox. So we had a previous accountant, looking after previous finance manager looking after the accounting area, and he was a very good accountant and understood his numbers well and understood, being an accountant well. But the person who's looking after that area now, the General Manager of finance in accounting, it's more than an accountant, it really is a member of the business and someone who proactively works alongside the senior leaders of the business to make a difference.

So I think the accounting skills are important, but being able to, I think Kate said, maybe Priscilla, about being able to communicate, being able to understand what the internal and external customers are looking for. And then figuring out from an accounting point of view or a finance point of view, how do we get that message across to the various stakeholders? And certainly the accountant that gets out of the office and gets on the factory floor and under scenes, understands the numbers, but also understands the output of the machinery or understands why is something taking so long or why are things not getting closed down? And that's where the real value is added.

Kate Lu:
Absolutely.

Priscilla Cheung:
Absolutely, yeah.

Majorie Wong:
So in a sense like, the importance of accounting sales, technicals, non technicals, like the non-technical skills are more important later on in your career than the technical skills, because you need to communicate with different stakeholders. To communicate with upper management, how to integrate the numbers into stories, basically. Isn't it?

Priscilla Cheung:
I think your technical still, is like the foundation. So your technical skill, I guess, helping you to really understand the basic business operations and tells you the stories, right? So even in my current role, I'm not necessarily be in accounting role, per se. Even when I talk to my clients about their investment strategy, I do look at the numbers, I do look at, what's the tax implication. So all these skill is really taking you go places, you are never kind of like one day not using it, even just taking work outside just on a personal base, trying to understand, why a government implemented certain policy, or what these policy might do from an economical sense. All this is so practical. So I'm actually glad that I enrol and I study accounting degree, because it's really just taking you go places.

Stephen Haller:
Yeah, it would be wrong of us today or wrong of me today, if I was on this podcast and didn't mention it. So last week, we were looking at a technical role, close to the accounting role, and close to the auditing function. And so we're looking for technical role and we've met with a number of technical people, and every one of those people could do the role from a technical point of view. But what we realised is, we needed somebody who could communicate, we needed somebody who had a vision, somebody who wanted to make a real difference. In fact, if nothing else in the heart, that was the most important part that actually could join all the pieces together and really wanted to make a difference.

And we realised that some of the technical aspects of the role we could teach, but what we couldn't teach was the attitude, what we couldn't teach was the vision, what we couldn't teach was the person who really wants to make a difference. And combining that really wanting to make a difference with the technical knowledge and the technical skills that you bring as an accountant or as a qualified finance person is you can really get some great synergies out of that.

Majorie Wong:
So how important do you think for current account is if they want to change the career, using the skills they gain in accounting, and transfer it into the future careers of different roles and accounting roles?

Stephen Haller:
Well, one of the things I'd be recommending is, if they understand the technical aspects of accounting, that they look at other things, and it might be marketing, it might be sales, it might be something else all together. And the reason why I say that is, in the accounting, you're going to use the left hemisphere of your brain. So as soon as you start moving to communication, or you start moving to marketing, or you start moving to the more creative side, you're going to use the right hemisphere of your brain.

So by doing that, by forcing yourself to some degree, to learn body language, body language would be an awesome skill for somebody who's got technical skills in accounting and finance, because if you can understand body language and understand when your prospect or your client or your stakeholder is not quite understanding what you're saying, you're able to then reframe it a different way, and put in a different way or put it in different words, and actually get they're buying.

So the beautiful part if you've got somebody who's very, very good technically, somebody who's very, very good from an accounting point, his point of view, if we can then get them to use the right hemisphere of their brain move into creative mode, then you've got someone who's unbelievably powerful, because you've got great skills in finance and commerce, great skills in accounting, great skills in property management, or investment. But then to superimpose on top of that, some tremendous skills like body language or interpersonal communication is an opportunity to really blossom.

Majorie Wong:
Awesome. Do you have any advice for us as well, Kate? For people who are currently considering career change, for example, like from accounting roles to non-accounting roles, or vice versa from non-accounting roles, to accounting roles?

Kate Lu:
Yeah. Sometimes I hear people saying like, "Hey, I'm just going to let go right of my X years of experience in whichever domain and then to start something new from scratch. Well, if you can see me now I'm doing this big cross with my two arms. No, that's not the right mindset to have. So in this world, no one can take your experience, your knowledge and your skills away. All the skills you acquire, they just stack together, as I said, you just add different lenses to your collection, they accumulate and as long as you keep your mind open, all these knowledge and the skills you acquire from different career paths through different domain, they will only flourish and make you a stronger candidate in the market as what Stephen was saying.

And look, you will just have more choices, right? And lastly, if you are considering change now, I want to say congratulations, you are a step closer to making a choice of your own, and be it to stay, or be it to change, it's your choice. And I will share a quote from a really good book that I'm reading these day by Dr. Edith Eva Eger, it's called, The Choice, and really recommend it. The Choice: Embrace the Possible. And she goes, "To be passive is to let others decide for you. To be aggressive is to decide for others. To be assertive is to decide for yourself and to trust that there is enough, that you are enough." So if you are considering a career change, congratulations, you are making a choice now. And it's just adding to your collections. This is great.

Majorie Wong:
That's a such a nice quote. And Priscilla, do you have any advice that you can pass on as well?

Priscilla Cheung:
Sure, I got to say, over the last 20 minutes or so I learned so much from Kate and Stephen and you guys are amazing, got so much insight to share. And it's really been beneficial for me. And I'm so humbled by the opportunity as well. I guess for me, one of the key thing for me is, it doesn't matter what you do and what you choose to become. At the end of the day, you deal with people. And I think any businesses actually make up of all kinds of people and people are different and they're driven by different things. And they have different aspiration and motivations. So for me is, go for something that you really love doing. I think when you love doing certain things, everything is not hard, and you will really put your heart and soul onto it.

And I think, for me is, I really love people and I'm passionate about people. And to me the couple of things similar to Kate, I love to share one quote, which is actually one of my favourite quote, that I actually carry it around with me every day is some Zig Ziglar. He basically say, "You would get all you want in life if you help enough people or other people to get what they want." So really just like showing, really love people, passionate about them. Not really the products, and I think you'll be successful in what you do.

Majorie Wong:
Thank you so much for the advice. Stephen, do you have anything to add to this?

Stephen Haller:
Yeah look, the first piece of advice I would say is decide what you really, really want. I've got three daughters, and as they grew up, I said to them, "Look, follow your passion. Figure out what you really, really enjoy to do and make work fun." And I'd give the same advice to anybody. And that is to solve what you really, really want. Figure out what you enjoy doing, what your passion is, and then make work fun. You've got some great tools through your training, you've got some great tools that you've built up over your career. It's an opportunity to have a look and say, I have a way to move forwards.

If you're looking for a book, one of the books that you might consider is, What Colour is Your Parachute. In that book, which is all about career transitions, you can go through a range of quizzes and it will actually help you figure out how do you use the skills that you've got now, in entirely different career or in entirely different profession? And I already mentioned, The First 90 Days, and again that's a great resource for anybody who's looking to change and indeed as you move into your new career.

Majorie Wong:
Such a wonderful advices from all of our panel speakers today, I hope you can get something from this. So my takeaways from today podcast is, never stop learning, don't get blindsided by current status. Do what you love doing, keep an open mind. And yeah, accounting seals are foundations, and it can be integrated into any careers. I would like to thank the guests for being here today. Thank you Priscilla for coming.

Priscilla Cheung:
No problem Majorie. It's so great to having me. I really learned a lot from everybody on the panellists and look forward to the next opportunity.

Majorie Wong:
Thank you so much. And also thank you Kate for tuning in.

Kate Lu:
Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.

Majorie Wong:
And lastly, thank you Stephen for coming here today.

Stephen Haller:
Thanks Majorie. It's been an absolute joy and really enjoyed listening to Kate and Priscilla give us their insight into what they've done over their career.

Majorie Wong:
Thank you our listeners for tuning in into this podcast today. Be sure to visit our show notes on, The CPA Australia Podcast web page for links and for more information on this week's episode. Thank you for listening once again.

Outro:
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