How to give your career a boost

Garreth Hanley:
This is INTHEBLACK, a leadership, strategy, and business podcast brought to you by CPA Australia.

Jessica Mudditt:
Hello, and welcome to INTHEBLACK Career Hacks podcast. I'm Jessica Mudditt. To help us understand how to successfully reboot a career if it starts to flag, I'm speaking to Dan Auerbach, an executive coach who is the founder and CEO of leading Australian corporate psychology consultancy, Associated EAP. Welcome, Dan. It's great to have you here.

Dan Auerbach:
Hi Jessica. Thanks very much for having me.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay. So Dan, how do you tell if your career needs a reboot? Is it like a feeling of discontent, of knowing you could be doing more with your life, or perhaps just that you are unsuited to your current role?

Dan Auerbach:
Yeah. Look, it's a great question, Jess. I guess there's a number of different reasons why you might want to have a reboot in your career. One of the signs, certainly, is that there is a sense of discontent with what you're doing now. You're starting to get a feeling like somehow it's not aligned with either your values or your purpose, or maybe it's not really expressing all of the parts of your personality that you think you want to shine in or bring to your career. It might be that you've got some great technical skills, but your leadership, for example, hasn't been brought to the fore, and that you want to see what you can do in that space. But it can also be other things, like the fact that your career started to feel a bit repetitive, that there's been no growth.

We know, from the brain science, that working towards a goal is actually what gives us a real kick to the reward system, whereas just fulfilling certain tasks that are repetitive doesn't quite give us that same buzz, so we do want to be stretching ourselves, normally, towards the next goal. If you're finding yourself stuck at a particular level, that's another reason to have a look at a reboot. I guess a third reason, apart from the values and the sense of repetition and lack of growth, might be that you are stuck in a role in which you've got, for example, lots of responsibility, but not a lot of agency. If you look at that in a leadership matrix, like an accountability matrix, like a racer, you might say, "You've got a lot of responsibility, but no accountability or sign-off rights," and in those sorts of scenarios where you don't have a lot of liberty of the task you're doing, you can start to feel pretty unfulfilled. Those are some of the things I can sort of think of off the top of my head.

Jessica Mudditt:
So it seems like it's actually a positive thing. If you become aware that your career needs a reboot, that's the first step to taking action to making yourself feel more fulfilled, and it could be a fantastic opportunity to try something new.

Dan Auerbach:
Yeah. Totally, Jess. I reckon that we undervalue boredom. We undervalue frustration, and sometimes the mistake we can make is looking outwards and going, "Oh. It's all because of this and that situation," and I hear that a lot, people sort of complaining about this scenario, but not really seeing that it's actually a pretty positive signal to them to say, "Look, something's uncomfortable. Time to move." So yeah, it is a great motivator. Yeah.

Jessica Mudditt:
Dan, could you please outline the elements of a successful career boot? I believe you can speak from firsthand experience here as well. I'd love to hear about that and the kind of advice that you give others.

Dan Auerbach:
Yeah, sure. Look, I guess my personal advice or my personal journey was a bit hard fought. I didn't have any of these guiding principles in mind when I stumbled through trying to reinvent myself, but I have had three pretty big go's at it. My original career, when I first started working, was in commerce. I qualified in that area. I did about 10, 12 years in various business capacities, learned to do managerial work, and led the teams, but after a little while of that, after about 10 years of that, I started to feel like there was a bit of a dead end in sight. The more I would sort of succeed or level up in my career, I'd sort of get this feeling like, "Okay. I'm here now, but this isn't quite hitting the spot." So I did a complete 360 and retrained, as it happens, in mental health type work, psychotherapy, counselling, and clinical work, and then spent about 10 years in clinical practise, and alongside that also built a business, so used some of my entrepreneurial skills to build a business in the marketing and psychology space, and also in the employee services space. Then, more recently, two or three years ago, I thought, "Okay. Look, I've done another 10 years there.

Time to do the next thing." Then, so finally, last couple of years or so, having done that work, first in commerce, and then in clinical work and in entrepreneurial activities, I thought, "Well, how do I combine all of this and level up my own career?" And worked in the executive coaching space over the last couple of years, which has been a really good combination of some of the other skills. So when I look at what does it take to have a successful career reboot, I suppose in each of those instances I felt like there was some part of my skillset or personality that I wanted to express, so I think the first thing that I would give people as something to think about would be, find your north star. Really ask yourself, "Where is it that you want to be heading? What's it about for you?" I've got to say that hasn't been easy for me. Even in this last change into executive coaching, I really had to search quite deep to go, "What is this really about for me? Is it financial?" I thought, "No. That's not quite it. Is it something to do with being a part of a different community?" I thought, "That's part of it." Is it a part of bringing my influence more out into the open and working with people in a more sort of visible way? I sort of thought there's a lot of different things that go towards defining why it is that something's motivating for you, and it's a really good idea to just talk to a lot of people about what they do in their work, ask about what's most fulfilling for them, and then try and find your north star before you settle on a path. That's the first element.

Then, the second element, I guess, to a good career reboot, if you want to look at a model, would be start trying to find what it is that you want to do in really simple terms, almost by virtue of having an elevator pitch, so that you can communicate with people where it is that you want to be heading. That really does a lot towards the next step, which is starting to actually mobilise the people in your network towards helping you find the next step. Also, if you're in an organisational context, and you have managers, sponsors, directors, CEO, board members looking out for your trajectory, they can start to get a better sense of what you're looking to do and how to best support you. It does go from knowing what you want, to clarifying what you want, to then, in a sense, doing a bit of PR so that a lot of people know how to support you along the way.

Jessica Mudditt:
I like the idea of blending different strengths that we have, but we might not be utilising them, and I think as well, in terms of the future of work is changing so much, and soft skills are becoming more important, there would surely be opportunities to tap into different aspects of strengths or areas that could be stronger, and then come out with what you did, which is essentially to blend different things into something new.

Dan Auerbach:
I think what you're saying about sort of soft skills is true. The more distributed the workforce, the more agile, the more responsible we all become for our tasks, and how to put them together with the team and how to align with the team that is not necessarily in proximity to us, not necessarily the old sort of management structure, but we've got to be quite nimble, and we've got to learn to collaborate. I read a good line, which is something like, "If you don't have those soft skills, you're going to have a very hard landing," and I think that's truer than ever, and we really need to think of them as business skills these days. I think that's kind of exciting. I mean, there's a lot of opportunity these days to really shine by being a great collaborator, a gifted motivator, a good leader. Those skills are now needed in nearly all roles, as well as the ability to collaborate across different functions in the business. Even if you're an IT security specialist, you've got to be able to get along often with marketing, with fulfilment, with accounting, and all the different functions in order to allow your role to become most effective in a digitalized world, where all functions are really working quite seamlessly in the best organisations. We've got a lot of opportunity to reinvent ourselves and to bring personal and interpersonal skills to life in the working world now.

Jessica Mudditt:
Absolutely. Dan, what is the importance of developing and nurturing a strong professional network, and how can it be done remotely? I think it would be fair to say that, even in today's world, who can still be very powerful for finding valuable career opportunities. Would you agree with that?

Dan Auerbach:
Look, from my own experience recently, and starting to want to let a few people know what I'm doing, it's really been the case that if I've got a warm introduction, it immediately opens the door. I guess being able to really build a network is critical if you're trying to create new opportunities for yourself. On the other hand, for a lot of us, we're in careers where the network is all around us. People know us, but they may not know exactly what it is that they should be doing to assist us, and they don't necessarily know where we want to head. I think, not just developing a network is essential, but also knowing how do you best tap into your network and make the most of that? I really think that is around starting to let people know, in memorable terms, what your brand is almost and what you're wanting to do and where you're heading. Then, also getting mentors and having people advise you, and pay attention to the changes that you're trying to implement. Let's say if you're going from a managerial to a leadership role, hopefully, and you've got a trajectory on that, finding sponsors in the business who are really going to pay attention to your leadership qualities. They might advise you on, "Are you being strategic on working on the business, or are you too on the tools?" Have these people give you feedback on how you're coming across in your interactions, so really getting a network to work for you, I think, is really critical as well.

Jessica Mudditt:
And would you say that it's really still quite essential to make the effort to do some face-to-face networking, or how do you approach remote networking differently from face-to-face opportunities?

Dan Auerbach:
Yeah. Look, I'm not sure that I've got a recipe book around that. I, myself, have tried a number of things. I think some of it's just traditional marketing, where you want to stay in front of people often enough so that they think of you when they need you, having a clearly defined brand, and then being in the space so that you're a part of the conversation, is an important thing, I think. Of course, I think personal relationships are always going to be the ones where people will genuinely understand us, think of us for the right reasons, and for our unique skillset. But I think if you're in a career, then I think it's actually about letting people in the workplace understand what value you can offer them and how that supports their work. I think, then, it's potentially a different thing too, if you're in a self-managed business where you're needing to develop a much more distributed network of individuals from all different backgrounds. When you're in a career, it really is about taking opportunities and building a network through the way that you contribute value to the business, and that's the way you'll most likely get visibility.

Jessica Mudditt:
I see. Okay.

Dan Auerbach:
And I think that's the same whether it's remote or in person. Sure, certainly, in-person connections are still essential. That's how business gets done, but if you are trying to level up your career in a job, I still think it's about contributing value to the organisation and becoming visible that way.

Jessica Mudditt:
So Dan, if a person should start to feel that their career is lagging, what are your practical tips for leveraging your professional network to help kick it into the next gear? Is it simply just a question of going to a few conferences, or is there a bit more to it than that?

Dan Auerbach:
Yeah. I guess it depends on where you're at in that reboot. If you don't yet know where you want to head, then ask for support from your network to find out what it is that they're doing, how they see you, how they see your role in the company or in the industry. It's really about getting feedback from the people who might have information and broaden your view. If it's about trying to find opportunity and help having people find opportunity for you, then it really is a matter of asking and extending out that request to say, "Look, can you introduce me to, let's say, two or three people in your network?" And being quite proactive about that, which is scary as hell when you're really putting yourself on the line, but that's sometimes what it takes to advertise your wonderful availability to others.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay. Dan, if you could give one piece of advice on what a finance and accounting professional could do now to prepare for the future, what would that be?

Dan Auerbach:
Look, obviously it's a pretty broad industry, and people are doing different things across that industry, but generally, as I was saying earlier, I think that having skills in collaboration, knowing how to coordinate work with other people, is essential, and that requires a few different components. I think it requires understanding a bit about self-management. How good are you at managing your stress, your work? If it is that you are a producer, how good are you at managing your deep work and your tasks? If you're manager, how good are you at managing others and creating the right responsibility and accountability matrices? If you're a leader, how inspirational, visionary, and values based are you, and how well do you model what it is that you're trying to lead?

Those are all self-management skills, and they can be learned, and it starts with awareness. I think my first thing would be to get some feedback from others as to how you're going in that regard, and make sure that you find people who are going to be honest with you, and who've got the skills, who are a couple of rungs up the ladder from you to be able to guide you a little bit on what they think you need, and get a broad range of responses around that. Don't trust one person to advise you on your career. You're going to get as many different answers as people you ask, and finding that combination that works for you is going to be critical. Find a way of developing your self-awareness and learning what's ahead, what the skills gaps are, and developing those. Then, in terms of what we touched on earlier, in terms of networking, in this regard, I think it's more about relationship building skills, but also learning how good are you at collaborating with others and getting them to either help you produce, if you're a producer, do the work that you need to have them do if you're a manager, or to follow you in leadership if you're a leader. Looking at those interpersonal skills, and again, looking for opportunities to develop those, is important. In that regard, if you are in a managerial or leadership role, it's really useful to get 360s and potentially get some coaching around that, so that you can widen out your perspective a little from where you are. I guess the part that I would say, as an executive coach, stands out to me is really looking for opportunities to have open and honest connections with people, so that you can develop genuine connections and get real feedback.

If you make yourself a bit vulnerable and let people know what you're really about, what you're really wanting, you'll be surprised at how helpful people will be. People do love to help, so being open and honest. Look, don't try and advertise yourself. Try and really reach out and say, "Look, this is what I'm up to. This is my growth agenda. What do you think I should do?" And really listen, and just say, "Thanks," and take it in, digest it for a little bit. Then, I guess the other thing I would say is, if your career is lagging and you've done all those things, then it might be that the next step is a little out of awareness for you, or that the next step's a little outside of your capacity. That's, I think, where if you've got the good fortune of being able to afford an executive coach or maybe a mentor of some sort in a more formalised way, whether that be like a Young Presidents' Organisation or another sort of CEO network, depending on the level you are in, getting out there and getting more feedback, it can be really, really helpful, because sometimes, especially at senior leadership, the small things that were outside of our awareness that we need to develop are the things that make the big difference in our career. They're things everybody else can see, but we can't, so I think that's my final tip.

Jessica Mudditt:
Terrific. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show, Dan. That's been terrific.

Dan Auerbach:
Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Jessica. Jackie Blondell: We hope you're enjoying INTHEBLACK's Career Hacks series. If you are interested in the latest news, analysis, policy updates, and business insights, you should check out CPA Australia's With Interest Podcast. Join us as we dive into the news and delve into the business issues of the day. Each week we talk to thought leaders from across the accounting, finance, strategy, economic, and business spectrum, and you get their expert opinions. Now, back to INTHEBLACK.

Jessica Mudditt:
To help us understand how we can leverage our skills and experiences to give our careers a boost, I'm speaking to Michelle Gibbings. Michelle is a workplace expert who has worked in a range of financial services organisations in executive roles. Welcome, Michelle. It's great to have you here.

Michelle Gibbings:
Hi, Jess. Thank you so much for having me.

Jessica Mudditt:
Oh, our pleasure. Now, Michelle, could we begin, please? Could I begin by asking you to share some tactics to build up a CV and make it stand out with additional types of experiences, which could be pro bono work, volunteering, and mentorship?

Michelle Gibbings:
I think the key thing when you're thinking about your CV is you need to make it relevant, and it needs to be really targeted to the job that you are applying for. And so the extra activity that you're putting in, whether it's volunteering work, whether it's participating on a not-for-profit board, whether it's special projects that you've done in the organisation, it all needs to be relevant to what you are applying for. Because what you want to do is make sure that you're relevant, your CV is current, and really hitting the mark. So look at all of those extra activities, but don't add in things that aren't relevant for what you're applying for.

Jessica Mudditt:
So really targeted. That's critical.

Michelle Gibbings:
It is, because otherwise, if you think about it, the person who's doing that first scan of your CV, they're looking at it maybe for 10, 15 seconds. You need to make sure you hit all the highlights. If your CV is too long, and it's sort of full of really great things, but you can't actually get people to see what they really need to focus on, you may be skipped over.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay. Michelle, what would your advice be on how to find the right mentor? Because I'm sure there's a lot more involved than simply finding someone you admire as a professional, and then asking them to become your mentor. For one, successful people are often very busy people and may not even have the time. Would you agree?

Michelle Gibbings:
Look, I agree, and I also think it's really important to think about. You could have formal mentors and informal mentors. I've had many people, throughout my career, who I've seen as a mentor that wouldn't know that they were my mentor. And so I think when we often think about a mentor, we think about it as someone that is this formal relationship, we've had a conversation, we've locked in some structure and some process around it. It doesn't need to be like that, so look at the people that are around you, who you think you can learn from, who can help you expand how you think about things, who could open doors and create opportunities, or who could be people who could challenge you. I would never say it's just about having one mentor. It's about having a range of mentors who are filling specific gaps in your knowledge and your learning. It's very much about looking for alignment and looking for people who, if they're going to fill that formal relationship, are prepared to spend the time with you.

Jessica Mudditt:
Yeah. I can imagine it would be quite daunting for some people, that if they're conscientious, they want to offer a lot to the person that they're mentoring, and perhaps feeling that they could let them down, or they may have imposter syndrome and think, "What can I possibly teach you?"

Michelle Gibbings:
Well, I think also if you look at people at a certain point in their career, they recognise that they've got to where they've got to because people have helped them, and they're really keen to give back. And so it's often about approaching people at the right time, but also if you want someone to be your mentor, be really specific around what those expectations are, because what I've seen sometimes is that people's expectations are unrealistic about what a mentor can actually do for them, and that if someone's going to give you their time, be really appreciative of it. Also, be really courteous about how you use that time, and that means turn up to those mentoring sessions. You are prepared. You know what you want to get out of it. Don't expect your mentor to drive the relationship. You need to drive the relationship.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay. That is really good advice, and I was going to ask you, actually, what your tips would be for approaching the mentor with a request, because I felt that it would be a really critical aspect, because if you come to them with something vague or over demanding, as you mentioned, their requests will probably just be turned down.

Michelle Gibbings:
It'll be turned down as well if they don't understand the why, and so if you're going to approach someone, be really clear about why that person, and why now, what your expectations might be, and also what are you bringing to the relationship? Because when we think about a mentoring relationship, we often think about it being one way. It's not. It's two way, so what is it that you are bringing to the table in terms of dedication, focus? What is it that you are hoping to get out of the relationship? Because I think the more specific you can be and the clearer you are around why you want this, then the other person can go, "Yes, I've thought about this," and actually, I'm ready to accept that, and I'm really keen to be involved, because I can see how I can help you.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay. Michelle, we all have to get out of bed in the morning, and doing so with the spring in our step rather than boredom or even a sense of dread is really important for finding happiness in life. What's your advice on finding purpose at work, and what can we do if we feel that it's lacking?

Michelle Gibbings:
Look, it's interesting with work,, because often when we think about those tasks that can be mundane and boring, we go, "Ah. I don't want to do that. I want to focus on the stuff that's strategic, that is exciting, that's new." I always say, there's a reality to the working world. You'll have good days. You'll have bad days. There are aspects of your job that are great. There'll be aspects that are boring. That's just the reality of life. If you can connect the work that you do with the purpose and find meaning in it, the research shows you will be happier, you will be more satisfied at work, and it actually impacts your health and wellbeing. There's this great work that was done by Amy Wrzesniewski and colleagues at Yale University, and they did it with janitorial staff. Now, this is not to demean the work that janitorial staff do, but often you would think about it as a sort of job that would be hard to find purpose and meaning, and these were janitorial staff who worked in hospitals. She found that the janitorial staff who could connect their work with higher meaning, and by that, I mean they were able to say, "I'm not just cleaning floors. I'm actually helping create a safer place for the doctors to do their work, so therefore I'm actually helping patient safety and patient recovery," they were able to find more meaning, therefore more purpose, therefore better job satisfaction. They were happier and healthier at work, and so when you think about your job, connect that job to the purpose of the organisation. It might be how you're helping clients get better outcomes. It might be how you're helping the organisation get a better outcome, and it might be that you can then connect it to the purpose that you have in why you do what you do. If you can make those connections, you'll be able to continue to keep going when you have those days that are tough.

Jessica Mudditt:
Michelle, what would the signs be, do you think, that it could be time to reboot your career by moving to a different organisation rather than an internal move?

Michelle Gibbings:
Look, there's a couple of things. I think, firstly, if you're in a role and you've stopped learning, so you're sitting there and you are bored, that is a sign that you are ready for something else. If you've become cynical, so you've become the office gossip, you are the person who is the office energy thief, you're cynical, you're sitting back, playing the black hat in every single position, every single decision-making process, it's pretty much time for you to go. Also, if there's a values disconnect, so if there's a disconnect between your values and that of the organisation, once again, you might want to think about doing something else. With those three elements, it's really sitting back and challenging yourself and going, "If I stay here, am I damaging my brand and reputation?" Because I've seen people in organisations get to the point where they should have left a long time ago, but they hang around for various reasons, and sometimes it's fear, because they don't think they'll find something else, or it's just complacency, but what it's doing is it's slowly eroding their brand and how people see them.

Jessica Mudditt:
And it spreads through the whole organisation. It can create a really negative culture, even a toxic culture, if there's too many people who feel like that.

Michelle Gibbings:
Oh, absolutely. We know their emotions are contagious, and so if you've got a team of people, we bond over adversity, so if you have a group of people who come together, and all they're doing is bonding over how much they hate the organisation or hate their boss, that can feel like you're connected at the time with all these other people, but it's not a healthy place to be.

Jessica Mudditt:
No, it's not a fun place to be. It's not fun if you're trying to enjoy your job and you're aware of that sort of situation happening, so it's time to move on.

Michelle Gibbings:
It is.

Jessica Mudditt:
Okay, Michelle. I've got a bonus question for you. If you could give one piece of advice on what a finance and accounting professional could do now to prepare for the future, what would that be?

Michelle Gibbings:
Balance the past, the present, and the future. If you think about it, if you spent all your time worrying about what's coming next, you never actually spend time really focusing on what it is you need to do well now. If you don't look to the past, you don't learn, so that ability to look to the past, learn, and reflect is really important, because you want to understand what do you need to take forward into the future. Then, when you're looking into the future, you really do need to understand how are things changing, how is my profession changing, How is my role and my industry changing, and how do I use the present to prepare myself for it? It's that real balance: past, present, and future.

Jessica Mudditt:
That's really wise advice. I've never thought of it in those terms, but it's true. Yeah.

Michelle Gibbings:
It is. It is. We can be more fixated on one. You have people who are stuck in the past.

Jessica Mudditt:
Yes.

Michelle Gibbings:
And then you have people, and all they do is worry about the future, and then you have people who all they're going to do is live for the present, and they're not going to be ready for what's going to come down the pipeline.

Jessica Mudditt:
Yeah. This is why I love children, because they stay in the present always. Terrific. Well, thanks so much, Michelle. That was really fascinating, and there was a lot of really great actionable advice in that. I just want to summarise some of your key points. When we were talking about mentors, you said, don't think of just having one formal mentor. You could have a range of mentors for different aspects of your professional life, and that many of those might be informal. Neither of you may realise that you've kind of slipped into this fantastic mentoring relationship, and to nurture the informal and formal opportunities by showing up, being prepared, and being really respectful of someone's time. When you make that first approach, be very clear on why you would love to have them as a mentor. Then, when we were talking about if someone's lost their sense of purpose at work, one of your great tips was to connect it with the organisation. If you are cleaning staff at a hospital, we know from the pandemic, it's an incredibly important function of patient health and safety, and that it might be a sign actually to leave, not just to look for a different role internally, if there's a values disconnect with the organisation, and if you have turned into the office cynic.

Michelle Gibbings:
Yes.

Jessica Mudditt:
Yes.

Michelle Gibbings:
Well summarised.

Jessica Mudditt:
Thanks. And our first guest, we had Dan Auerbach, and he made some really good points as well. He explained how a feeling of discontent is often a sign that it's time for a change and not just a vacation. He also talked about why the most important first step is to be clear about what you want to achieve, in terms of filling in any skills' gaps, and then to think about how it will add value to the business, and then communicate that. Finally, he spoke of the importance of looking outside your organisation for networking opportunities that could lead to something really interesting, whether it's a sideways move or an upwards move. We had a really great chat, so thank you so much for your time, Michelle. I think that will be really interesting for our audience.

Michelle Gibbings:
Lovely. Thanks so much for having me.

Garreth Hanley:
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