Boost your career by ‘thinking like a recruiter’

Garreth Hanley:
This is INTHEBLACK, a leadership strategy and business podcast brought to you by CPA Australia.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Hello, I'm Jacqueline Blondell, and welcome to another episode of INTHEBLACK Career Hacks. In this series, we bring you the latest strategies and tips to help supercharge your career. Today we're speaking to Leah Lambart, a career coach who began her career as a tax consultant with KPMG. 20 years later, after stints as a recruiter and HR consultant and 10 years running her own coaching business, she now shares her insights with clients and coaches them to think like a recruiter. Welcome, Leah.

Leah Lambart:
Thank you, Jacqui. Thank you for having me on the podcast.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Lovely. Now first off, I want to ask you what thinking like a recruiter actually means in practice.

Leah Lambart:
Good question. When I think of thinking like a recruiter, what I mean is I like to coach my clients to really understand what recruiters are looking for at each step of the process. So that might start with what they're looking for when they're reviewing your resume or cover letter, what they expect when they call you or when you have a screening call with a recruiter. And most importantly, what they want to hear in the interview.

So when I work with clients, it's really helping them understand the capabilities required to be successful in that role. And this obviously includes people related skills as well as the technical and helping them develop really specific examples to demonstrate to recruiters when they've actually used those capabilities previously to overcome day-to-day challenges.

Jacqueline Blondell:
So it is really selling yourself, how to sell yourself, and understanding the audience you're selling yourself to.

Leah Lambart:
Correct. And I think that's probably often the hardest thing for people with accounting and finance backgrounds. They're obviously very good technically, but sometimes they are not as in touch with their soft skills, so they find it difficult to, for example, explain when they've had to deal with a conflict in the office or when they've had to deal with a difficult client. And I've found over the years that typically accountants don't like talking about themselves. They find it difficult to sell themselves, particularly if they're ones who have humility as a strength. They're much better at talking about what they do, not how they do it.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Let's talk about finding a career niche. How important is this in this day and age, and how does it fit into career planning? I

Leah Lambart:
I guess to start with, a career niche is about finding a specific area or specialisation within a field and working towards becoming an expert in that area. And I guess the benefit from that is that allows you to really excel in a particular area. And finding your niche early in your career gives you more direction and purpose and probably will motivate you also to be successful. So I think the first thing about finding a niche involves self-reflection and really thinking about the areas within accounting and finance that will suit your personality, play to your natural strengths, but also align to your interests.

So often, we find that people end up in areas that perhaps don't really suit them or perhaps it feels harder than it should, and that's usually a sign that they're not doing work that's aligned to their strengths. So some of the work we do with people in that area as well as in other industries, of course, is really helping them understand what comes naturally to them.

For us, for it to be a real strength, we say that it needs to be something they do well, something they use often, but also something that energises them. And so often we find that people, even though they might be good at something, they don't feel energised or excited when they're doing it. And so what we call that is a learned behaviour as opposed to a strength. So it's really understanding areas within accounting that will suit you best and then you'll be more likely to be energised, engaged, and most likely will perform better.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Have you found that many people do travel down a path where they get stuck in a particular area that isn't their strength, it's just the way their careers turned out?

Leah Lambart:
Well, my earlier career was a perfect example of that, Jacqui. I, like most people or a lot of people, I left school, I had really no idea what I wanted to do. I fell into studying commerce and did a major in accounting and found myself in a graduate position at KPMG working in corporate tax. Where I feel that I went wrong is that I didn't do any research. I just went along to the interviews.

I had absolutely no idea what the difference was between audit, business services tax or any other areas in accounting. I just went along to the interview, I was put into the corporate tax team. I was an accountant, but many of the people that I was working with had law degrees as well, and the work just didn't suit me. So I was fine doing tax compliance work, which was probably more numbers-focused, but when it came to reading and interpreting tax legislation, reading tax cases, it felt a lot harder than it should have. And I felt that it was a lot harder for me than people around me.

But I did get stuck because I'd been in tax for quite a long time. And when I went to speak to recruiters, they just tried to offer me other tax jobs. And that's when I actually became a recruiter myself because I was finding it really difficult to make that break. So I think a lot of people fall into careers and then find that perhaps it isn't the right fit. It can be really difficult to make that transition out.

Jacqueline Blondell:
More power to you actually making that move because it is really hard if you've got a specialism that the market wants and then you know it's not your passion. It's hard to turn around.

Leah Lambart:
It is. I wasn't at a manager level or anything like that. I'd worked in a small accounting firm back in my hometown of Wagga Wagga for a couple of years straight after school, and then I ended up at KPMG after transferring to Melbourne Uni. I certainly wasn't a specialist, probably had five years under my belt when I left, but certainly I felt stuck at the time. My biggest regret was that I didn't do the research, I didn't go and speak to people working in tax and find out what the job actually involved.

Jacqueline Blondell:
So research is key. So as a former accountant, let's talk about how you might address your accountants who are your clients in helping them plan their career and find their niche.

Leah Lambart:
Well, the first step in any potential career transition or finding the right career is that self-reflection and self-assessment. And so the work that we do with clients, the first step before the first session, they would complete a career assessment. And what we're looking at there is understanding, as I said, their personality, their strengths, their interests, their values. So for example, as I said before, different specialisations suit different personalities.

We were recently doing some work with a very experienced finance person who was working at a CFO level, but had unfortunately had some difficult roles that hadn't really worked out, and he'd lost a lot of confidence over that. From doing some of this assessment work and really looking into where his natural strengths are, it became quite apparent to him that perhaps he was better suited in a financial controller role that was more a maintenance role, more hands-on and perhaps wasn't as suited to a CFO role that required strategy and more that big-picture thinking.

And from doing that work together, I think it made him realise that the financial controller was a better fit for him and it made sense to him why those other roles hadn't worked out. So he was then felt much better about potentially taking a bit of a step back and looking at an FC role instead of a CFO role.

Jacqueline Blondell:
He sounds like quite a senior person to suddenly have this revelation helped by yourself. It's a really interesting dilemma to have to go, "Should I be taking a step back rather than forward?"

Leah Lambart:
That's exactly right. And another example of that, Jacqui, often is accountants that become managers, and as they progress their career, usually they then have a team underneath them. And for many people that isn't really the right fit either, they don't really enjoy managing staff, they don't really enjoy that coaching and developing side. They would probably rather become technical experts and really work independently.

And so sometimes, again, through doing some of this work, they realise that they are better perhaps becoming more of a specialist or in an analyst role where they can be technically great and really get into Excel and really crunching the numbers as opposed to spending their time managing people, which isn't a natural fit and probably something that they can do, but it will take a lot more energy and they might feel quite exhausted and drained at the end of every day because of those requirements to manage staff and having all the people interaction.

Jacqueline Blondell:
That's probably true for a lot of professions where the actual skill in managing people's often overlooked, and then you realise you're getting away from your true passion and dealing with people management. So I don't think that many professions would find that unusual.

Leah Lambart:
Exactly right. The same goes for often creatives who start off in graphic design or design careers. And then as they become managers, it takes them away from the creative and instead they spend a lot more time doing admin and people management and start to lose the passion for their industry. So definitely being a manager or people manager isn't necessarily the right fit for everyone.

Jacqueline Blondell:
We hope you're enjoying INTHEBLACK's Career Hacks series. If you are interested in the latest news, analysis, policy updates and business insights, you should check out CPA Australia's With Interest podcast. Join us as we dive into the news and delve into the business issues of the day. We talk to thought leaders from across the accounting, finance, strategy, economic and business spectrum, and you get their expert opinions. Now, back to INTHEBLACK.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Let's look at career progression through the career stages. Does the way we plan our careers change as we move through the different stages from early to mid to late?

Leah Lambart:
We do see a shift in how people plan their careers, and often that's very much tied to values. For example, a young accountant, perhaps straight out of university, I know I was one of those. All I wanted to do was work in a big office in the city in Collins Street, wear a nice suit and go to drinks at the end of the week. I was very happy to work longer hours.

It was a lot of junior accountants are more focused on the money and the career progression and working for a big brand. But then often as they shift and become a little bit older, perhaps in their 30s when they might start to have children, often those values shift and we see that their career planning then centres around other things such as flexibility and having better work-life balance.

And as a result, their career path changes and they start to value other things that perhaps were different to what they valued earlier in their career. What is important though is that people are always thinking ahead, that they're thinking about what is that next role that they want to achieve and thinking about the skills that they need to develop, whether they're technical or soft skills to help them achieve that next role.

Jacqueline Blondell:
What about the later people? The so-called looking toward retirement, which is clearly being ever more in the distance for most of us. What should they be thinking about in their career plan?

Leah Lambart:
Often, people towards the end of their career might be starting to think about other things that they can do, leveraging off their experience. So for example, sitting on a board, it could be a paid board position or it could be on a board for not-for-profit. So, often they start to look at what we call a more portfolio career. So they might take a little bit of a step back. They might be doing some part-time work or working as an interim CFO where it's perhaps more contract-based, but then also perhaps sitting on some boards and giving back. We see as people progress through their career, often there's this shift to wanting to give back and do something more meaningful.

And I'm seeing that with our clients at all levels within their career. Often a lot of younger people are wanting to do meaningful work as well, but this definitely becomes often more obvious towards the end of the career.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Okay. So regardless of what career stage you are at, what should an ideal career plan look like and how often should you revisit it?

Leah Lambart:
That's a good question. I believe that a career plan needs to be looked at regularly. If you could revisit your career plan on a quarterly basis, that allows you to set some realistic actionable goals within that quarter that can then be reviewed. And if we're having those regular conversations, they're much more likely to actually be implemented. So I would recommend for people to sit down with their manager, perhaps look at three goals that they could achieve for that quarter.

Again, they might be developing specific technical skills. They might be related to networking. It might be related to developing their commercial focus or their commercial acumen. So it's then about putting actionable steps in place. So an example of this might be that a goal is for that person to have a more holistic focus or develop their commercial acumen, and so what can they actually do to improve in that area?

So there's no specific university course that they can go out and do, but it might be things like finding a mentor in the organisation who does that really well, that they can have some coffees with, spend time with and see, "Well, how do they go about building their knowledge outside of their team or outside of their department?" It might be listening to podcasts. It might be doing some LinkeIn learning courses, thinking about who they can follow on LinkedIn to build their industry knowledge. So there's many actionable steps that they can put in place, which I think are realistic to be completed over a three-month period and then reviewed every couple of months.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Your business is called Relaunch Me. What's your top advice for those who are at a career crossroads, say perhaps a redundancy, deep job dissatisfaction, or indeed, if they're feeling stuck in their chosen niche? It would've been good a couple of years ago, but now it's unbearable.

Leah Lambart:
Well, interestingly enough, the process is really the same for people in all of those situations. So the first thing is self-reflection, really getting clear on the types of roles and companies that you should be applying for. And that's often takes that thinking time to really consider, again, your strengths, your interests, your values, the type of work environment that you’ll thrive in.

Once you are clear on what you're actually trying to achieve, it makes the job search strategy much easier because your job search can be a lot more focused and tailored. The second point I would make is make sure that you are using a job search strategy that will work for you. So the default for most people is going to search for jobs on job boards, but this doesn't work for everyone. For people who are making a career change, people who are relaunching their career after a significant career break, then going and looking at Jobs on SEEK is probably the least likely way they're going to get a job.

So they might need to think about other approaches like networking, using referrals, or going direct. So I think it's really important that people get clear on the job search strategy that's going to work for them. And then once they get into their job search, obviously they need contemporary resume cover letter, documents that are tailored to the job, keyword optimised so that you beat the bot when your resume is going through applicant tracking systems. I would always recommend having a strong online presence with a really professional, again, keyword-optimised LinkedIn profile. You need to have great interview skills.

And I think you need to be patient because the recruitment process can be frustrating. You can be ghosted at any time, which means a recruiter stops calling you all of a sudden, or you attend an interview that you think went really well and then you don't hear anything back. My biggest piece of advice is don't take it personally because this happens to everyone. But the recruitment process, it can drag on. And often the more senior you are, the longer it will take to secure a role. So you really need to be patient, find things that you enjoy doing outside of the job search process that will keep you energised and keep your confidence up.

Jacqueline Blondell:
Thanks so much for sharing your insights with us, Leah. It was great to talk to you.

Leah Lambart:
Thanks for having me, Jacqui. It was great to talk to you.

Jacqueline Blondell:
If you're looking for more great career content, please check the show notes for links to CPA Australia Career Resources. Until next time, thanks for listening to INTHEBLACK Career Hacks.

Garreth Hanley:
If you've enjoyed this episode, help others discover INTHEBLACK by leaving us a review and sharing this episode with colleagues, clients, or anyone else interested in leadership, strategy and business. To find out more about our other podcasts, check out the show notes for this episode. And we hope you can join us again next time for another episode of INTHEBLACK.