Digital payments and the future of e-commerce

Intro:
Hello, and welcome to the CPA Australia Podcast, the weekly source for accounting, education, career and leadership discussion.

Tim Lu:
Welcome to this episode of the CPA Australia Podcast. My name is Tim Lu and I'm the national sector lead for technology here at CPA Australia. Today I'm really glad that I have the pleasure of great company in Sigal Pilli CPA, who is the chief operating officer of Assembly Payments and Julie Lim CPA, financial controller at Airwallex for this podcast. Very welcome to you both.

Sigal Pilli:
Hi.

Julie Lim:
Hi Tim.

Tim Lu:
Both Sigal and Julie's professional track records speak volumes about the unique personal qualities as well as exciting possibilities the future of finance and accounting professionals can explore outside the traditional accounting roles. So more importantly, given the involvement in the FinTech industry, I'm really interested to find out more about what they think of the future of money and the FinTech industry in Australia in general. So without any further ado, I might just get Sigal to do a quick introduction of herself. Okay.

Sigal Pilli:
Sure. So I'm Sigal, I'm the COO of Assembly Payment looking after range of the areas like finance and fraud and systems and tax and legal and compliance. And before that, I was the CFO of Envato. I worked there for seven and a half years. I helped it scale from a company of 35 people to around 500 CPA, both here in Australia and in Israel. I have a degree in accounting and economics. I came to Australia about 15 years ago.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. And Julie.

Julie Lim:
Hi, I'm Julie. I'm the financial controller for Airwallex which is a global FinTech company founded in Melbourne in 2015. Airwallex is the fastest growing tech unicorn in Australia, and I'm proud to be a part of it. I have been with the company for three years. My role is mainly involved in due diligence reporting, statutory reporting, regulatory reportings, and also the finance functions. So prior to this, I was with an energy technology company. So it's a big change for me to get into FinTech. This is the first FinTech company I've joined and I have been in this industry ever since.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. Thank you to you both. And I might just start with you, Julie, you mentioned a lot of reporting roles in your current title. So I guess I'm just curious to ask how do you actually get started in accounting?

Julie Lim:
Before that, I wasn't really thinking about doing accounting. I was doing a double degree, so bachelor of commerce and science. So I was in science. I started in science and then I took up a commerce, a major in marketing and accounting. At that time I wasn't thinking too much. I was just thinking that accounting probably is easier for me to get into industry. And also I don't want to work in the lab doing research by myself. I wanted to interact with people. So that's how I got into accounting and then eventually joined CPA, which I think it is very industry base and then will help me with my career, and it does.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. Excellent. Thank you so much, Julie. And I think stems, losses, CPA Australia's gain, I will say in this case. Sigal, how did you get involved with accounting?

Sigal Pilli:
Well, I was always good with numbers and my dad had his own business which I was always involved. And I guess the crossover between numbers and how to apply the commercial insight that you get from this numbers into a business always fascinated me and this is how I ended up.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. So since you both have quite a lot of I guess, influence in the FinTech sector, I'm just curious to know whether technology has always been an important part of your career trajectory or is it more of a coincidence? I might start with Sigal, okay.

Sigal Pilli:
Well, I started in audit actually, like every accountant in Israel you have to start with audit. And then I had quite diverse background. I did tech, I did manufacturing. And then I ended up with Envato, which was an e-commerce business and took me back into the tech world and now Assembly. So quite a diverse range of industries.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. Fantastic. And Julie.

Julie Lim:
Like Sigal, I also started in audit in Malaysia. And after that I was exposed to a different industry. And after that I was working for FMCG company. That was my first role in the industry. After that role, I have been into technology ever since. Yes, technology is a big part of my life and that I wanted to always be involved in that side for my career. I think that I want to be part of this and I want to be part of the change. And that's why it's important for me to join a technology company. And I'm actually grateful that I got the opportunity to join energy technology and after that, FinTech.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. And speaking of change or transformation, I think we can all agree on that Australia economy is going through quite a lot of changes recently. So I guess the employee market as a result of that, we've seen a lot of challenges, for example change in disruptions like the rise of the gig economy and with the companies like Uber, with sort of transportation even say, iTunes with music, Tasca with basically anything that you don't want to do. So what sort of impacts do you think the technology changes will have on accounting and finance professions and what are the sort of the major changes you've seen so far? I'll start with Sigal.

Sigal Pilli:
So what are accountants good at? They're commercial, and they have an eye for numbers. They can look at the numbers and provide insight by looking at it. And I think with the world volume of data, getting bigger and bigger, I think I heard last that in the last two years, more data was produced than ever before in all accumulated years before then. And I think the ability of accountant to look on data and derive commercial insight out of that is going to be very important for the future and for their employability. I know that we've been looking for data analytics people for really long times. Normally now we borrow them from statistics degrees and science degrees, but then the commercial is not necessarily there.

Sigal Pilli:
And this is really needed in order to provide the business what the business need. In other areas, if you think about tech, if you think about e-commerce, these businesses are producing new banking system, new accounting system, new systems, basically that deal with moving money and require the controls, require the basic things that we learn as accountants and needs to be applied into the system in order for them to be robust and controlled and reconciled and all these sorts of things. So this is two area where finance people can develop into, and yeah, will have to adapt. If you don't adapt, you're not going to be there.

Tim Lu:
Yeah, I think just a quick comment on the value of data. I think according to The Economist, the value of data actually overtook oil to become the most valuable commodity in 2017, I believe. So it just goes on to show how much value is there for I guess accounting or finance professionals to sort of delve into, also make the roles sort of indispensable in any sort of organisation that you work for. What about you, Julie? What do you think?

Julie Lim:
I think for the accounting and finance professions with the technology companies especially in payments, I feel that we are moving away from the conventional reporting and conventional accounting as well where we focus more, like what Sigal has mentioned earlier, like data, but at the same time, I feel like the two most important things is agility and also adaptability. So there will be a lot of changes in this industry. And as finance professions, we need to be able to adapt to all these changes and move fast. And don't break things along the way, if possible. And at the same time, still contribute and do the commercial decisions and be part of the commercial decisions making, especially it is important [inaudible 00:09:49] will see the finance and commercial they work hand-in-hand and sometimes on the compliance side and legal side as well.

Julie Lim:
So just focus on the conventional traditional accounting is not sufficient for the accounting professions. And I'm seeing that moving towards that direction is actually good for the accounting professions like myself. I've seen it firsthand and I will recommend other accounting professions to do the same.

Tim Lu:
Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic.

Sigal Pilli:
I completely agree with that. I think also you probably noticed tech companies, the culture is different and finance people need to go down to the floor and speak to the people and be much more engaged and get out of their desks which is also a change that is happening.

Julie Lim:
Yes. Rather than just crunching numbers, to go out there and talk to different teams.

Tim Lu:
Yeah, absolutely. So what I'm hearing is not just necessarily the skill set that needs to be I guess upgraded for lack of a better word, but it's also the mentality in terms of interpersonal skills. Also I think the need to, I guess, connect or communicate with either internal or external stakeholders which is quite interesting because I guess, given your experience, your personal experiences, so what would you say is something that you haven't experienced outside the FinTech industry prior to working for an organisation within the FinTech industry? Have you had an experience in some different sort of skill set that's required for finance professionals to work in this particular sector?

Sigal Pilli:
I think one thing which I've noticed which is different is that information is much more readily available for anyone. And therefore if in the past, the CFO would say, we need to do A, then it was clear we will need to do A. Today everyone can open the internet and look for the accounting standard or for the tax law or for the legal regulation and push back. And it can be engineers, it can be anyone in the business will push back and you have to have your facts really checked and you have to be across your material in order to be able to present your case and present why you need to do or want to do things in a certain way which is quite different to 20 years ago when the information was much more hard to reach.

Julie Lim:
Yes, I feel very similar in that sense. Prior to joining FinTech or payment industry, the work with the other companies, like in the other sector is very structured. In FinTech because it's rather new in Australia, sometimes we'll come across things that we have never come across before because it's so new. So no one has been there done that. And this is the challenge that we have in the FinTech. And I feel like it is important to network with other CPA professions like Sigal and when there are times that we don't know, we can't get it from the textbook of professional development, but we can get it from people that we network with like someone like another CFO, another COO, that have been through and done that for instance like market entry. Yeah.

Tim Lu:
I like that Julie sort of touched a little bit on the talent. It is a challenge quite commonly sort of seen in the FinTech sector. I remember actually reading the article regarding Assembly Payments, how the people and culture general manager actually struggled to source talents, I think because the company was scaling up so quickly, finding the right talent, finding the right personnel was quite a challenging task. Of course, she did a fantastic job. But I just think it's interesting I guess wanting to sort of expand a little bit on that as well Sigal because obviously you've had a similar experience in Envato where you sort of grow the finance team quite quickly. So what was your experience like with regards to, I guess, talent challenge in the FinTech sector?

Sigal Pilli:
So I think maybe I'll speak about FinTech and tech in general. I've joined assembly 10 months ago, so I'm not sure I have enough time period to speak about my experience there. I think one of the things I learned is I need to hire for capabilities rather than experience. If you're looking for people that have experienced in tech sector or FinTech sector, you're probably not going to find, so you want to hire for the capabilities and for the skills that they have and make sure that they are transferable to the area that you are operating in. I think we learn to change our hiring process. I've changed my hiring processes over the years in order to assess these capabilities. So not necessarily looking at the CV only and asking a few questions about the CV, but actually doing case studies and getting people to actually do hands-on things in order to assess their capabilities, to transfer the skills that they've obtained in non-tech area into tech area.

Tim Lu:
And given Airwallex global expansion growth, just similar to Assembly Payments, what are some of the challenges you faced Julie, I guess in the recruitment or just sort of finding the right talent space, if you like?

Julie Lim:
Certainly the fit for the roles and also different regions, they have different regulatory requirements. So the people that I will look for when I'm doing the hirings for other regions, like [inaudible 00:15:55] involved in the early phases, the fit for FinTech, a technology startup, we probably shouldn't call ourselves a startup now, but then the fit for this area, like in FinTech and also the capabilities that it is transferable. But at the same time, not just experience, there are other things that come in play as well because sometimes we'll find someone that has the right fit, that has the right skill, but they wouldn't be able to demonstrate it when asking when we go through the case study or the examples.

Julie Lim:
So it's important to assess the persons as well on all areas. There wouldn't be 100% fit, but then we try our best to find the best fit for the role, especially for overseas and also in Australia. They will never be 100% fit, but we can only try our best and find out later.

Tim Lu:
It's interesting, isn't it? Like the industry or the sector itself is so new. I guess in today's terminology, you probably won't be able to find someone that's 100% fit to the role, I think that the ability to adapt and to grow into the capability, I mean, at the same time, you can say the capability itself is changing all the time. So it's really sort of fit into the whole narrative of how do you actually up skill yourself? How do you always, I guess, looking for opportunities to develop yourself as a finance professional. And given both of you are Melbourne-based, what do you think are some of the contributing factors really sort of rapid expansion or the FinTech industry I guess specific here in Melbourne?

Sigal Pilli:
I think we have a few good universities which kind of increase the supply of engineers and other required resources. I'm told not to use the word resources anymore, so the required people that can do this work. There is growing number of VCs that can invest in these tech companies. And I think the success of the more veterans companies like CIC and REA increased the appetite of other companies and other founders to be the next cab off the rank with this sort of successes. And I think that's kind of cultivating more and more startups.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic.

Julie Lim:
Melbourne is one of the two big cities in Australia. So definitely it will not have problems to find out the talents in FinTech for tech companies like us. That's why a lot of the FinTech companies start in Melbourne. Also maybe because of the food, arts and sports.

Sigal Pilli:
The coffee. The coffee.

Julie Lim:
The coffee.

Tim Lu:
Most livable city in the world, I think we were six years in a row. Sigal, if I remember correctly, it's organisations like Assembly Payments actually provide a lot of solutions to a lot of technology or web-based organisations like castles.com and Tasca. So speaking of the ecosystem, do you see as a trend for startups or FinTech organisations to be more I guess, startup friendly in the sense that they provide more opportunities and platform for other organisations?

Sigal Pilli:
I think it depends on the startup. So if you look at Spotify or Netflix or Uber, obviously they are targeting consumers, but definitely startups that are targeting businesses have to be attractive for these businesses and they need to integrate with this businesses and they need to be the technique to be very easy to integrate with, needing to be very attractive so there isn't a pushback from the engineering team on the other side for the integration and for the activity that needs to be done.

Tim Lu:
And Julie, do you think that is the case with Tasca, sorry, Airwallex in the sense that there are a lot of opportunities that potentially you can collaborate or sort of improvise to other startup in FinTech sector or just in general?

Julie Lim:
Yes, definitely because Airwallex focus on main customer is Baeza, the SMB and enterprise customers. And we would like to work with them rather than say, we work with them to form these ecosystems that are usually we help them send, they use our system and then we help them scale their businesses as well, because what Airwallex is a cross border payment company. So we provide them the platform to scale their business globally, so we need to work with them. So I see a lot of opportunities with other companies especially in the SMB and enterprise space to form these ecosystems. Yeah.

Tim Lu:
So it's not all gloom and doom, the robots are not just taking our jobs and leave everyone homeless and jobless. So they are actually benefits for human beings in general, in terms of growth because it sound like it's a very reciprocal relationship.

Julie Lim:
Yeah, it is. It's the collaborations between these companies and I see a lot of that happening.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. And I guess we're sort of being very positive about some of the elements within the FinTech ecosystem. But what are some of the challenges that you face on a day to day basis as well?

Julie Lim:
The challenges is sometimes this moves too fast, and probably not sometimes, it moves too fast all the time and we have to again say adaptability and we have to be [inaudible 00:22:20] as well around our work process to make it work.

Tim Lu:
When you say move to a fast, is your internal process or do you think it's the overall environment?

Julie Lim:
The overall environment, especially in the FinTech space and Airwallex to become a unicorn in three years, such a short time. So we have to move very far. So that's what I feel that sometimes the companies they are growing, they're going very fast need to take time to reflect. And then there's the challenge that you didn't really have much time to reflect on what you are doing. And it will be good that we can actually do that. But sometimes it's just that we have to deliver and then reflect later on.

Tim Lu:
It's true because like we just discussed earlier, FinTech is such a new phenomenon. There's no guidebooks or there's no lack of idiot's guide to start up to FinTech. So oftentimes people grow the business at a very exponential rate without having any sort of reference point, like you can't really compare it to its conventional business. So I think I guess in the same way, you face different challenges that you probably wouldn't face in conventional business either. So Sigal what are there some of the challenges you think are sort of hindering the growth?

Sigal Pilli:
So if we talking specifically about FinTech, then it's quite obvious that the regulation and the tools are lagging behind. FinTech is moving much faster than the regulators. And even simple things looking for an ERP system that is suitable for a FinTech company is a challenge. On top of that, any startup is going or any fast growing business is going through cycles. So grow, grow, grow, and then you need to take stock and you need to hire maybe people that are most suitable for the current size of the business. And then you grow again. And not necessarily the people that you hired will scale with the business accordingly. And I often see it as a kind of leaps rather than a curve in a sense because you need to consolidate on this growth and you need to adjust your processes and you need to adjust your position and then you continue again.

Tim Lu:
Yeah. Fantastic. And speaking of changing and managed changes, so you've made a transition from a CFO to a COO. So what's the biggest change or challenges for you in terms of focus in the current role?

Sigal Pilli:
I think a lot of the things and the skills I acquired [inaudible 00:25:07] looking on kind of a wide range of areas, which are beyond the core of finance are still applicable at Assembly. At Assembly, I have a responsibility over areas I didn't have before which is kind of keeping it more interesting. If you only do what you did before, it's not really interesting. So I thought before that I know quite a bit about payments. I realise I don't know a lot after I moved to Assembly. And there is quite a lot to learn in this space.

Tim Lu:
Payment or technology though?

Sigal Pilli:
Payment.

Tim Lu:
Okay, wow. Okay.

Sigal Pilli:
Technology bit was there before. I think that payment... So in Envato, payment was, I mean, to an end. In Assembly, payment is the goal. You want to make the best payment system that you can, where for me at Envato payment was just the tool for the marketplace to operate better and to have less frictions. And I think coming from this different perspective is helpful, also bringing my CFO hat to Assembly and thinking as a CFO of any of our customer, what would I want from the system is also helpful.

Tim Lu:
Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of payment, I think we can't really go past the banks. As well, you sort of had this conversation earlier in the studio in terms of how I guess prevalent banks, not necessarily banks, but certain banking or finance functions that the traditional banks have that we don't actually think about in terms of cash payment, in terms of transactional activities, in terms of going to a restaurant paying for your meal, all sorts of different interactions and activities on a daily basis. We don't necessarily associate them with banks, but they are actually facilitated or in this to a certain extent controlled by the banks. So I think it's quite an interesting relationship between the traditional banking institutions and startups specifically in the FinTech sector because as an ecosystem, they do play a certain role.

Tim Lu:
But at the same time, I think there are some hindrances and challenges they bring with them as well. So how would you describe the relationship of your organisation with some of the larger banking institutions?

Sigal Pilli:
So Assembly has obviously a relationship with Westpac. Westpac is one of our shareholders and they're also one of our customers. Assembly developed a software for the [inaudible 00:28:02] terminals, for the in-store terminals, for Westpac. And so obviously we're working very closely together.

Tim Lu:
Julie.

Julie Lim:
Also Airwallex as a FinTech company partners with the banks, a lot of the banks and would not see Airwallex as a disruptor, but more providing a niche service to more underserved markets, provide a faster and more efficient payments. So I would say that FinTechs work hand-in-hand with banks, not just as a disruptor in this market.

Tim Lu:
Interesting perspectives. And I guess we've seen a lot of changes, I guess that's happening in the banking and finance sectors as we speak in terms of I guess the trust between traditional banking institutions and the customers. Do you think this particular, sorry, this particular change of perception, I guess given that a lot of younger generations are more open to ideas like neobank and challenger banks. Do you think that's a definite given, the number of opportunities will be increasing for the new starters in the FinTech sector.

Julie Lim:
It's like you mentioned earlier, it's like the millennials, they are more adaptable to the change. So technology also a big part of their life. And I will see that Australia is heading in that direction as well with more people adapt to the technologies and then they will have more trust in a FinTech or in a technology startup. So it becomes a norm now. Maybe 10 years ago, it is still new. And then there might be the trust issues between the users and also the tech startup. But right now I've seen that this has changed a lot in the last 10 years where technology has become a big part of our lives and that we become more reliant on that. And we trust it more now than in the past where it's just like the banks.

Tim Lu:
Okay.

Sigal Pilli:
I think the younger generation has certain expectation. They need very quick gratification and with that comes expectation that money would move faster. There is more awareness for fraud and things like that. And they're looking for more secure ways for the money to be settled into their account or be transferred to other accounts. There is I think, less acceptance of cash industry or cash economy. People are expecting to be able to transfer money over the phone using an app, walking into a bank, looks like something from the middle ages.

Tim Lu:
Back to the future.

Sigal Pilli:
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Lu:
Now the other way.

Sigal Pilli:
Back to the past.

Tim Lu:
Back to the past.

Sigal Pilli:
And I think startups and banks will have to keep up. It's not a coincidence that there is much more signups to the new banks to the neobanks than there are from my generation or the older generation where they still need a branch to walk into and someone to speak to. My kids will never do it.

Julie Lim:
So people are more financially educated these days. So it's not that hard to look up the tech startup, they're also as regulated as the banks. That's why people are more adaptable to this change. And given that the economy is moving towards digitalizations, and I can see that it's going towards a cashless economy where people don't use cash, now everything's digitalized. And because of this change, there are people that are comfortable with that. And it is actually a good opportunity for FinTech or a technology startup at this stage in this era.

Tim Lu:
Yeah. So what is going to happen to all cash nodes? What's your prediction?

Sigal Pilli:
They will be reduced significantly.

Tim Lu:
Yeah.

Sigal Pilli:
Even the credit card usage is going down.

Tim Lu:
Okay.

Sigal Pilli:
So over the years there is less use of credit cards. I still remember being in a conference and the CEO of Visa was kind of pretty sure that credit card use is not going to be eroded. And the fact that it is, so there is higher use of real-time payment, use of other means, payments within wallets rather than the old way of paying with the credit cards.

Tim Lu:
I think a good experience, a good example rather I had was recently I went to China and I was really surprised of how prevalent cashless society or cashless payments are over there. Even just say for example, going to the market to buy some apples, the vendor will say, "Please scan my QR code." And I've actually also heard stories certain vendors actually refuse cash payment, which is quite astounding given the fact that I think Australia we still have a quite nice blend of different sort of payment solutions. But I also think it's quite an interesting analogy recently I heard from a payment expert as well. He said that imagine you are a bike rider and one day you are told that you're not allowed to ride a bike anymore. You're only allowed to drive cars. So I think that sort of takes me I guess, to that sort of situation where you go into a market, you're not allowed to use cash anymore. So what do you guys think of that?

Julie Lim:
My trip to Shanghai was eye opening as well because it's literally a cashless economy. Everywhere you go, you use a mobile phone to make payments. They have [inaudible 00:34:32], Alipay, [inaudible 00:34:34], other payment companies out there, but those are the two major players, even hailing taxi, going to the market, grocery store, all the big stores, most stores, everyone using them. And I can see that we are heading towards that direction as well. It's actually quite safe. It's more for the safety because you don't have to carry cash around with you that to start with. And then you can just pay with a mobile phone. And right now they have a facial recognition. And how great is that given that if you have the apps, then that is very convenient and now we see the Australia moving to that well. So you can go to smaller places like in Australia, imagines everywhere is you just pay with a tap. It will be very convenient. And then first of all it's convenient and then second thing is the safety.

Tim Lu:
And I guess we were talking about the global economy earlier and also given the fact that both of you had very extensive experience working internationally as well as in Australia. How important do you think is that exposure to different culture, different sort of way of doing business? And how do you think you sort of utilise that in your current role?

Sigal Pilli:
I think diversity comes to mind. I think it's really important to bring this diversity into the team and making sure that we have different perspective on how to do things, especially e-commerce often service a global market, don't only service one country. And therefore, when you have people that are also employed from the global world and from everywhere they can contribute in terms of understanding what are the customer's needs and the expectation in other places around the world.

Julie Lim:
Yes, I can't agree more because with the global markets, every region is different. So I'm grateful that I get the opportunity to work with different talents from around the world. So from the offices around the world and it is an important aspect of FinTech especially a growing FinTech because it provides diversity. And we respect each other's culture, but at the same time we do understand how they operate in their regions. So I feel like the exposure to this is important for my career and also not just my career development, but also personally.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. And given that both of you are CPA members, how do you think the CPA journey that you've had sort of help you to adjust to the new roles or the new challenges in the current role? So in industry.

Julie Lim:
My CPA journey is interesting. It probably doesn't have that much impact in the beginning, but it does have at the later stage right now, because it is more globally recognised, the CPA brands. And I found that very helpful, especially with our banking partners or the regulators, they recognise the names and then it helps a lot of the times when we deal with the financial side of the business. So definitely the CPAs, I guess, more industry recognised and I'm glad that I've done that.

Sigal Pilli:
Obviously as a COO, I don't deal on the day to day with the accounting and the accounting standard, but it's a set of tools that will forever be in my hands and enable me to do my job better. Look at the financial statement and get the insight out of that. It help GMs achieve their goals better, put the right controls in the system, know what to expect when the auditors will come. These are all tools that helps make the work better.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. And which technology or trend are you most excited about for the coming years in the digital payments sector?

Sigal Pilli:
For me probably the real-time payment which is here. So I'm not sure I can call it future. And if I need to look at the future, then it's probably the open banking, the ability to use the data that will become available and generate insight and help other businesses that basically this is their data to then work better and carry their business better and get better results with that. I think it's a fantastic thing.

Tim Lu:
Okay. If you don't mind me asking for those that might not be familiar with idea of open banking-

Sigal Pilli:
The idea is so that it's not completely clear what will be all the use cases, but few of the examples. So basically taking the data, it is taking the data of the businesses and making them available from all this data is being held currently with the banks, making it available to FinTech and other startups in order to provide the businesses that this data refers to them, commercial insight into how to conduct their business better. And you can think about, for example, apps that allow, all of us finance people, we have log-ins, different logins for different bank accounts. I used to have a bag of tokens. This is no longer required with that because one app can have access to all of them. And if you have the access to this app, you can control all your bank accounts from one app instead of logging in and logging out. This is one use case which is very basic, but makes life easier and makes things more faster.

Sigal Pilli:
The rest of it is about commercial data, providing ideas to businesses, how to make more profit, how to conduct the business more efficiently and things like that.

Tim Lu:
So in terms of the word open, it's really open for both the consumer and as well as the service provider.

Sigal Pilli:
Yes.

Tim Lu:
Fantastic. Julie, what are you most excited about? Not using and not having to remember all the passwords?

Julie Lim:
There's already an available product in the markets to remember the password and it's very secure, but it is important to have everything at one place, which I found that, yes, I have a lot of tokens as well, but that's not ideal because I have it in my phone, but not everything in one place. So if there will be systems that they could provide that for finance professions, everything in one place, not just the tokens, but everything, not just the dashboard where you have the ERP systems or the payrolls or expense claims or other reporting tools that require. But it's like dashboard for everything in one place including the banking tokens, and hundreds of banking tokens, that will be great. So it's just everything at one place. I haven't found a system that can do that yet.

Tim Lu:
Okay. I'm going to put you on the spot here, Julie. That's what Sigal said. What are you most excited about?

Julie Lim:
But for the companies, I will say that the products, digital wallets for not just the consumers, the SME enterprise, so digital wallets in different currencies that enables people to use them, to use them whenever they want to. It doesn't matter-

Tim Lu:
Foreign currency?

Julie Lim:
Yep, foreign currencies for example, and then they can use that overseas and they can do it in real-time. They can see the exchange in real-time so they can see the monies I deposit into the accounts in real-time and then the spending in real-time, that will be great, not just for the consumers, but also for the business. Imagine like how business can move forward so much faster if everything is in real-time and if they can do that and they can exchange it when they want to. And they can exchange, not just they have to, but when they want to, it will save the cost. And then it will help the business to scale much faster.

Tim Lu:
I think this is something that Sigal mentioned in a last conversation we had in terms of how slow the money transfer used to be. And I think correct me if I'm wrong, the quote goes, the money moves as fast as the banks allows it to. So it is quite interesting that the real-time transfer of currency, but also I think the costs involved in terms of used to be quite substantial now, obviously with the new real-time transferring.

Sigal Pilli:
Definitely today, we transfer money in six seconds. So the real-time rails that we are operating transfer money in six seconds.

Tim Lu:
How bad it was back in the days?

Sigal Pilli:
Oh, you can wait three days.

Julie Lim:
Yes.

Tim Lu:
Okay. I think for everyone that might have a different bank account to the one that your employer uses, I think every payday's always a bit of anticipation. There's always a bit of [inaudible 00:43:54]. You never know when that salary is going to-

Sigal Pilli:
And it's international, it's even worse. You can wait five days, the bank will take their fees and then the intermediate bank would take their fees. And then the recipient bank will take their fees. By the time the person get the money, it's $50, 50 US less for example. This will have change. With the digital wallet, things will happen instantly. We started to see it with the current digital wallets that exist in the market, and it will only be bigger.

Tim Lu:
So inadvertently this particular function really allows global commerce to, I guess, take place quicker and I guess more cost-effective. And I think given the sort of global connectivity that we see every day we see nowadays, we see it nowadays.

Sigal Pilli:
And the fraud control as well.

Tim Lu:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think what we sort of spoke about in terms of trust as well, I think it's definitely a trend that's going to continue if you like. If I had a choice, I think I'll spend the whole day, if not the whole week, talk to you both about FinTech sector, give me your great insights and predictions. However, just like any good projects or I guess, activity, we have come to the end of this episode. I'd like to thank you both for your fantastic contribution and looking forward to hearing more about the exciting projects or ventures that you go on to as well. For those who have queries or comments, please share with us through [email protected]. Again, thanks Sigal and Julie for today's session.

Sigal Pilli:
Thank you, Tim. It was a pleasure.

Julie Lim:
Thanks Tim.

Tim Lu:
For those of you who are interested in find out more about Airwallex and Assembly Payments, please go onto their website or click on the link below.

Outro:
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